An Interview with Bishop Joe Aldred.
Welcome. I am most grateful to Joe Aldred for the interview below, which gives much of Joes background. As well as his work With Churches Together which he mentions, he has also been a Church of God of Prophecy pastor in Ashford, Oxford and Sheffield. He has a Ph D from Sheffield, received the Lambeth Palace Langton Award for Community Service, and is a member of the Windrush Cross Government Working Group.
Apologies that this blog is coming out a day early. I need to take my laptop in for a new battery and give Apple time to have it back for next week’s blog. Apologies too for the occasional variations in print strength.
1. Joe, can you say a bit about your background - where you grew up, how faith developed, what has influenced you, and so on.
I was born in Jamaica in 1952, whilst the island was a colony of the British Empire. Jamaica gained its independence in 1962. My birthplace of Top Mountain is a deep rural district in the mid-southern parish of St Catherine that lacked basic infrastructure like good roads, healthcare and education. We walked everywhere. I am the eighth of eleven siblings all born in a small two-room bungalow that was without electricity, running water, bathroom, inside toilet, kitchen, etc. We never lived all together as my father emigrated to England before I was three years old and gradually siblings also migrated away within the island, to England and the USA. Mine was a basic agrarian upbringing surrounded by domesticated animals, vegetation and fruit trees galore. We were poor but better off than most since our dad sent remittances to help out – his reason for going to England. Family life had three main spheres: i) the half-acre on which we lived, and two other plots of land a few miles away on which we grew vegetation, reared goats and reaped fruit trees; ii) an all-age school in another district; iii) and church which met twice on most days of the week.
We were a religious family, which is more than can be said of many in Top Mountain. There were more than a few in the district who did not go to church of which ours was the premier body of worshipers. The other two a Pilgrim Holiness Church and a Four Square Church were never well supported. Ours, known to me first as the Bible Church of God and later renamed the Church of God of Prophecy due to its co-option into a Pentecostal denomination with headquarters in Cleveland Tennessee, southern USA. It slowly became clear to me that our local church had oversight form the USA carried out by Jamaican ministers from nearby Spanish Town. They visited regularly and the rest of time the church operated under a local caretaker leader. Church was strict, with clear moral instructions which amounted to a long list of don’t do’s...including don’t play games like cricket, which I loved to play and was a frequent infringer of this rule! And in addition to providing much room for participation in gathered church activities, focussed on being filled or baptised the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in unknown tongues. This was serious pursuit involving early morning sessions, and regular evening revival meetings which mostly included time at the altar praying, called ‘tarrying‘, seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit – children were not exempt from tarrying.
Three primordial faith impressions impacted me at an early age. First, a strong feeling that I needed to accept Jesus as my personal saviour or I would go to hell. Fear of torment in hell was a major factor driving faith and belief in God. I raised my hand in affirmation of accepting Jesus as Saviour aged ten, was baptised by full immersion in water aged eleven, and simultaneously added as a member of the Church of God of Prophecy by the Right Hand of Fellowship. A sense of safety from hell was achieved by accepting Jesus as Saviour and joining the Church – and the Church of God of Prophecy was clear it was the only true church. This exclusive ecclesiology, like seeking for the baptism of the Holy Spirit were teachings from headquarters in the USA. Those inside the fold were safe, those outside were lost souls, heathens, in need of salvation. Second, although safely in the fold of ‘The Church’, tarry as I might, those unknown tongues never came for me. I ended up falling asleep in the altar on most occasions. My situation was compounded when it became clear that the local leader of the congregation was not filled with the Holy Spirit either and was tarrying as well, albeit he knelt at his leader’s chair on the platform. My young brain wondered, ‘how come’? How could the church leader not be filled with the Holy Spirit yet be leader of this church? I had no answers, but was comforted in the knowledge that the leader was in the same supplicant place I and others was. My young faith was perplexed. Third, I recall watching a film depicting the crucifixion. A generator was brought in to make this possible since there was no electricity in Top Mountain at the time. The suffering Jesus went through to pay the price for my sins to be forgiven was rammed
home in this film that was full of pain and blood. Jesus, however, played by Charlton Heston (most probably) was white as was the disciples. At that point in my life, it was probably the first time I took note of skin colour. It shouldn’t have been since at school I was introduced to Christopher Columbus who ‘discovered’ Jamaica, white Europeans (never as slave and plantation owners) who ran the island, and a key school book text was Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stephenson. It became clear the man who discovered my island, those who ran its affairs, and now God in Jesus who paid with his life for my salvation, were all depicted as white. On the occasions I saw images of heavenly beings they too were white. That my family, the people in my church, district and I were all black was held in common with the Devil who was also depicted black, in words and pictures.
My mother, several siblings and I joined my father in Smethwick during the 1960s. I came late 1968 which saw me integrated in a Church of God of Prophecy very similar to the one I left in Top Mountain, and in which I continued to develop, increasingly more perplexed. In a tarrying service in this church I was picked up from the altar and proclaimed filled! My church leader in Jamaica though, died un-filled. My unconvincing filling and his non-filling have paved the way for an ongoing antipathy towards glossolalia and its – in my view – unhelpful and unwarranted place in my and some other Pentecostal churches as ‘initial evidence’ of being baptised in the Holy Spirit. It is in my experience an oppressive and unnecessary teaching that leads back to white American Charles Parham contested by Black American William Seymour, but which continues to this day. It is responsible for sending many to their grave doubting their salvation and entry into eternal life, in addition to thwarting spiritual development in life. Let the Spirit blow where the Spirit will, I say, evidenced by the fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
My own gifts have become evident over time as a singer, musician, teacher, pastor, administrator, prophet, communicator, writer, ecumenist and more. I have become happy to leave speaking in unknown tongues to those to whom it has been gifted and who can use it for the building up of the body and communicating the good news of the Gospel in the world (Acts 2). Within the Church of God of Prophecy I have served in various ways including as pastor and bishop, with ongoing contestations concerning prohibitive doctrines and practices that inhibit spiritual growth. I have made intentional decisions to embrace a less Eurocentric and a more Africancentric expression of Christianity, moving away from whitesaviourism towards an incarnational God in Jesus Christ that is consistent with my black humanity made in the divine image. I have been greatly influenced by the steadfast faith in God of my mother who single-parented us after father’s migration.
Looking back it seems clear that the absorption of the local indigenous Bible Church of God into the White southern American run Church of God of Prophecy represented a seismic shift in self- conception and ecclesiology as it involved teachings that would superimpose themselves upon the local culture, disenfranchising the leader through focus on glossolalia and generally promoting foreign rule over local one. A not so subtle form of spiritual colonialism, which continues to this day and needs urgently to be exorcised and local cultural and spiritual autonomy restored.
2. You worked for Churches Together in England, particularly concerned with the involvement of Pentecostal and black majority churches. What stands out for you most about those experiences?
Having experienced an education disrupted by poverty and migration I returned to study in my late thirties through the Urban Theology Unit, Sheffield, achieving a Masters and Phd in theology and ministry from Sheffield University. This ten-year educational process helped me to contextualise my faith in God and an ecclesiology I can embrace. This resulted in a passion for intercultural ecumenism that took seriously the Black Pentecostal Churches presence in Britain exploring in particular intra-Black and Black and White ecumenism. This is even as I continue to challenge and seek to empower through education and training. In an important spiritual moment I applied successfully for the role of Director of the Centre for Black and White Christian Partnership (CBWCP), Selly Oak Colleges/University of Birmingham in September 1996, resigned as pastor and regional Bishop of my denomination – which caused much consternation and bemusement. I helped to revive the Council of Black Led Churches in Birmingham for which I was first Vice Chair, then Chair involved in community reciliation work on behalf of Black churches in Birmingham and around the country. Coalescing practical black theology with community action particularly in politics, health and education including publishing edited works by Black writers and helping to innovate the first Black Theology Journal in Britain. I concluded that recognition of Britain as a place of Diaspora against a background of historical and contemporary empire meant that spiritual, social, economic and political empowerment and the exercise of agency was the greatest need the Black British community had. My ministry has leaned towards this social-spiritual-political activism since the 1980s, multi-denominational, multi-party political and community wide. Living in Diaspora also means seeking to recognise and nourish connections with my homelands in the Caribbean and Africa, by whatever means possible, mostly living in that connectional awareness.
When the CBWCP was shut down and its educational work transferred to the University of Birmingham and Bournville College, its intercultural ecumenical work was transferred to Churches Together in Britain and Ireland (CTBI). Soon I applied for the half time post that was on offer from CTBI as Director for Minority Ethnic Concerns. Soon after joining my post was transferred to Churches Together in England (CTE) where I continued working until I retired in 2020, some seventeen years in total. Strengthening ecumenical relations between Black, Pentecostal, and Charismatic Churches became a significant brief of my portfolio at CTE. This led to significant increase in membership of these churches in the national ecumenical instrument, strengthening of relations with mainstream churches including representing Pentecostal Churches at CofE General Synod for several years.
Significant for me working alongside these churches was how excluded many felt from mainstream, yet secure in their own ecclesial identities, which were affirmed once an ecumenical vehicle was constructed for the purpose of fellowship through the Pentecostal and Charismatic Forum and other mechanisms that ensured spaces marked by mutual respect. Mainstream also much appreciated the facility to engage with constituencies they were often unsure how to engage with. In addition I found that bi-lateral denominational and interfaith relations were also made possible. I learnt that once ecumenism moves away from organic union to recognition that there is already One Church with many members, what the members needed to do is to live together in love and unity which led to greater understanding and greater possibilities for shared mission. An ecclesiology of mutual recognition and respect allowed rich engagements between churches that held polarised beliefs and practices on important doctrinal issues. I witnessed Quakers and Pentecostals dogmatically polar opposites, share worship!
I cannot say with W E B DuBois that the colour line has been washed away in the blood, or that all denominational differences have disappeared, but I can say that in my intercultural ecumenism work over the past thirty years the family of God under the headship of Christ has showed that it can find ways of living together as one in spite of differences. Intercultural ecumenism created the spaces that made this possible. These relationships are fragile and each need to feel affirmed in their tradition, since they coexist even though they disagree.' Squaring that circle tends towards corporate affirmation in the person of Jesus Christ as head over all. I suspect however that were we to scratch too deeply we may find challenges there too. For now it holds. CTE as a broad super diverse Christian family will need to go sensitively if it is to continue to provide the space for the fellowshipping that does justice to Jesus’ prayer in John 10. It remains a walk of faith.
Significantly for me, my life is lived as a Black British person, part of a Caribbean and African Diaspora in the omnipresence of the God in whose image I am made full of creativity and moral reasoning which also expresses as agency in dignity and self-determination. I find Jeremiah 29 helpful in navigating life as an exile in ‘Babylon’.
3. What do you think are the most important issues facing the churches in Britain in our life and witness in a multi-ethnic society?
Churches in Britain face many challenges, of which the main one in my view is answering the question of fidelity to the Gospel of Jesus to love one another, in spite of our differences. This means at times these differences will be exacerbated and require greater outpouring of the love of God into human souls. Loving the other as brother and sister when you fundamentally disagree is a profound grace from God. There may be times of fierce contestations, quarrels and even fights but the healing qualities of sibling love must prevail over sibling rivalry. Can the Church stick together in the fiercest storms, even withstanding periods of cold wars and indifference towards each other because of disagreements? Jesus words to the church remains, by this will they believe, when you love one another. As the Psalms remind us, it is good and pleasant when siblings live together in unity. Holding together as the family of God is our biggest challenge and will be tested in the years ahead given the social revolution happening in the world and the approximation of the church and the world – in it and not of it. This is all important in my view since the business of the church in addition to being a worshipping community, is its mission to and in the world that expresses itself in social, economic and political justice.
A second challenge is staying faithful to the Gospel in an increasingly secular and scientific world that pushes faith to the side-lines of society. I believe that is whare the church belongs and the best place from where to proclaim the love of God for the world in spite of itself. Christendom in the west spoilt the idea of church as being salt and light, a city on a hill, by purporting to occupy the entire landscape. The church has always been the leaven in the dough...not the dough itself. A vibrant Christianity, not a vibrant Christendom, is what is needed. Calling people to follow Jesus, not our denominations, and helping them to grow in faith and discipleship is the church’s point.
4. What do you most pray for as regards the future?
Prayer for me is primarily an act of divine/human collaboration concerning the kingdom of God in the world in search of greater peace, security and wellbeing. I do not understand God as a self- indulgent demanding supplicate worshippers, rather a God calling humanity into co-labouring between God and ‘man’. So, I pray most for us to grow into becoming better citizens of the kingdom of God that wrestles in prayer/conversation with God about how humanity may embrace one another making the world a better community. Lord help us to love one another more.
4. What three books by yourself and what three books by other people would you commend to our readers?
Of my published books, the three I’d suggest are i) Respect: Understanding Caribbean British Christianity which is an expression of me theologically, my defence of the existence of Black Churches in Britain as an expression of Black Agency in Mission, and my understanding of incarnational existence of Caribbean British identity rooted in the person of Jesus. ii) From Top Mountain is the short story of my life which is important for understanding my life journey to date. iii) Sisters with Power, which is a collection of articles by mostly Black British Christian women and which I merely edited as an expression of Black women speaking for themselves, I believe people have voices and do not need anyone to speak for them.
The three books I would recommend that have impacted me are: i) Black Theology and Black Power by James Cone, the first theological book that spoke to me as a Black person about God in a way that
affirmed me as a Black man identifying the divine image in me; and spoke in a way that white/European theology never has. ii) Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey, edited by Amy Jacques-Garvey, that told me the importance of my African roots as I live in a world deformed by white inferiorisation of black humanity. iii) Race: The History of an Idea in the West, by Ivan Hannaford, that helped me understand the root of race and racism and therefore my place in the scheme of things.
In summary, I live in the fullness of my Black humanity, believing in a God who created us all in the divine image and likeness. For me this relates to capacity for moral reasoning and creativity, and agency that speaks of dignity and self-determination. All relationships be they spiritual or secular; social, economic or political are seen and experienced through these lenses.
Joe Aldred (Bishop, Dr.)