This is from my ‘Race & Faith’ column for March in The Voice, Britain’s biggest selling black newspaper.
Interview with Phyllis Thompson
Phyllis, we have been friends for over forty years. What’s been happening to you?
Yes- we met through the Zebra Project, one of the pioneering ecumenical Church Race Relations efforts way back in the 70s. I am now retired - perhaps semi-retired! My life and work have been very much to do with development education within the secular, Pentecostal/evangelical settings and wider church in the local, national and global contexts. Key happenings, include the development of the New Testament Church of God (NTCG) theological training programme [https://ntcg.org.uk/education/],our the Heritage Centre[https://ntcg.org.uk/history/] and The Oliver Lyseight Annual Lectures [https://ntcg.org.uk/education/events/oliver-lyseight-annual-lecture/]. These three initiatives build on the work of our pioneers and provide spaces for our members and the wider community to engage in meaningful intergenerational, interdenominational conversations, critical reflection and shared learning from our past for credible, contemporary Christian ministry.
Compilations of the first two series of the lectures are in print: Challenges of Black Pentecostal Leadership in the 21st Century (SPCK 2013) and Challenges of Pentecostal Theology in the 21st Century (SPCK 2020). The current series which runs from 2018-2022 focuses on the role of women in the church.
Your father, Rev S U Thompson, was a leading NTCG minister. What was it like growing up in the church?
Yes, Dad was one our NTCG pioneers. He founded churches in south-east London and the West Midlands. Looking back, my siblings (the nine of us now alive) recognise the privilege it was to have had him and our mother as parents. Growing up in the church as a 'Pastor's kid' presented much aggravation and pressure, particularly in the realms of control and liberty. Thankfully, each of us embraced the positive intentions and support our parents and the church members gave us and as a result we are all engaged in Christian ministry and service to the community across the various spheres of influence.
When did issues of racism and blackness first become significant for you?
Racism and negative perception of 'blackness' was very apparent during my school days. I remember a school lesson on slavery. The teacher's attempt was appalling to say the least, her lack of sensitivity and acuity simply perpetuated the mentality of the slave owners and the mutilation of the slaves which left me in a quandary beyond my intellectual and emotional aptitude. Another significant moment that comes to mind would be the time on my final teaching practice when I was asked to contribute to the school’s effort during their 'Multicultural week'. In those days the one black teacher was presumed to be an authority on the subject! My contribution was clearly well received but I was very much aware that my theoretical base was weak and vowed to do some serious research on the matter. As a result I took a post as Church and Community worker with the Zebra Project in East London and began my activism for the cause.
Looking forward, what gives you hope for the future of black majority churches (BMCs) in Britain; and what do think are the main challenges?
The so called 'Black Majority Churches' and 'White majority Churches' are continuing to seek ways in which to present the good news of the gospel to our racially divided society. That gives me hope. But the hindrances remain strikingly daunting. Racism and the unwillingness on every front to abolish it presents the biggest challenge to my mind. Martin Luther King's observation is still too true, that 11am on Sundays is the most racially divided time of the week.
The unwillingness of the White majority churches or the 'historic churches' as they are otherwise called to move beyond mere 'talk' and 'walk the talk' does not help.
BMCs are a growing component of the British religious landscape. In my view, much of our contribution is hidden because firstly, we have not utilized sufficient opportunities to contribute to public Christian witness in local, national and global contexts, for example by giving servant leadership with integrity. Secondly, we are too focused on style, size and ‘celebrities’ rather than matters such as theological training, exemplary leading with integrity, the mentoring of our young/emerging leaders in the interest of kingdom purposes.
Then there is the issue of women in leadership. I remain struck by the observation of one of our young women: 'I find it odd that I can aspire to be and become the Prime Minister of the UK and not a bishop in my Church!’ This is a pertinent challenge for us: What legacy are we leaving for the next generation?
Another challenge is to do with how we create alternatives to the Eurocentric perspectives of the Christian story that often dominate the art-work in our homes and churches. Our painting ‘A Taste of Heaven’ by Leavon Bowman, helps to address this concern. For further information, visit https://ntcg.org.uk/shop/
What are the main things that you think BMCs have to offer to black British people; and to British society as a whole?
I believe we have much to offer the British society from our experience of marginalization and social injustice, for example, how to welcome strangers, ensure that minorities are not neglected and that the voices of the alienated are heard, how to affirm and nurture the sense of identity, belonging.
What particularly nourishes your faith today, and what do you pray for particularly?
Discipleship and pilgrimage currently preoccupy my mind, prayer and understanding of my faith journey. I am finding Eugene Peterson's book, A long Obedience in the same Direction: Discipleship in an Instant Society’ to be a great resource in my endeavors to make the idiom "Be the change you want to see in the world" my lifestyle.
I am very aware of the global and inter-independent realities of our humanity, which strengthens my firm belief that all lives matter: black lives not-the-least. I make no apology for my choice to assimilate the mindset of Jesus and be part of his mission to give ‘life in all its fullness’ (John 10:10).To this end, I pray for discernment and wisdom to bring the Christian perspective to this timely global conversation whenever and wherever I sense the opportunity to do so.