Really helpful- clarifies some of the issues involved for me. We saw some of these dynamics played out publicly at a BLM protest and counter protest in our area.
Dear John, Thanks for your helpful blog and insights wrought from the experience of day to day living in a multi-ethnic community.
You say "Yet English (or British) nationalism ought to be celebrated, both as a bond that unites people and a focus for identifiable virtues. For many immigrants the rule of law, the opportunity for advancement, the freedom from oppressive authority are all benefits to value; benefits that overall outweigh experiences of racism or the occasional failure of institutions."
Herein lies the challenge. English identity that equates to a white ethnicity excludes those who do not display the appropriate heritage and is used as a tool for those with racist agendas. Here Englishness becomes an exclusive club of the ethnically privileged, marking out those who identify as white being different and superior over other ethnicities. How then do we consider those who are not white but third or fourth generation English born black with no other single ethnicity than to say black. Are they not also English?
I'm not questioning the integrity of your blog, but offering from my own reflection and experience. Colin, Birmingham
Thanks for your comments. I think we should contest those who say that English identity equates to white identity. It doesn't. People can and do have an English identity who are not white; it is not an exclusive club. Nor does it demand people renounce other identities - a dual cultural identity is a source of enrichment, albeit possibly of tension at times. In an Add-on in a previous blog I mentioned the late Rabbi Jonathan Sachs who confidently lived out both Jewish and English identities.
So I strongly believe that third or fourth generation black people can be both black and English.
Believing that God has created us also gives us confidence to value and explore our identities. How does this fit with your experience?
Thanks John for this... very informative and thought [rovoking stuff. It pretty much aligns with my own views on these issues.... Just a couple of things to add about how the actual dynamics vary according to local context... The superdiversity of inner London, which I don't think means that everyone living there is an "anywhere" person, is so different from the situation in the North of England... But even there every town is different, maybe every neighbourhood.. Did you see the review of a recent book I did? https://williamtemplefoundation.org.uk/blog-review-race-space-multiculturalism/ I don't think celebrating English identiy in Blackpool (96% white British and one of the most deprived towns in England) is the same as doing it in Burnley or Blackburn where there are two largely segregated communities poor white English and poor Asian Heritage . And then Preston where I live is more multi-cultural... Majority white British, but large communities of Gujeratis, Pakistanis, Sikhs, Polish, Romanian, Carribean, and all the diversity of overseas students at the local university. And even within the one city there are different ethnic dynamics.. Where we live the "urban village" is diverse but a little above the deprivation level, and because of a single local school and long term community work most people get along OK.. and there are good relationships and real friendships between folk at the mosque, the church and the two Hindu Temples. Over the other side of town where we worship and are involved in community work things are more of a struggle and more raw... with some tensions from time to time..
The other point is the link between "Christian" and English identity (being CofE and all that).. which contrasts with the racist othering of Muslims... Of course there are real differences of belief and religious practice.. but it does tend to get so confused with ethnicity and racism.. We need to keep working away at this issue in the church.. but over 40 years we don't seem to have come very far.
I'm loving your blogs, keep it up please. Are there ways it can get out to a wider audience.. For example do you know the evangelical facebook group EDGE?
Thanks for your comments. It is really great to hear from you. You have moved (physically) away from West Ham. No problem - you are now much nearer Anfield.
I particularly appreciate your points, and your review.
* My experience is entirely London-centric, as with quite a few other commentators. I think smaller towns - especially if just one major industry predominated and if only one or two broad ethnic groups likewise - probably differs from big city super-diversity. I would like to get more of a handle on how different.
* Specific context is very important - as you say quite adjacent localities can be very different.
* The term multiculturalism muddles. As i hear it, it can either mean different communities living quite separate or parallel lives; or people retaining significant elements of their cultures but occupying the same spaces (localities, jobs, social amenities, churches etc) as people of other cultures. I favour the second, lament the first. But very often it is not clear what people mean.
I do want the blog to reach a wider audience and keep wanting to get various media to mention it. I am technologically very unsavvy so don't use Facebook, or have contact with EDGE. But please commend it as widely as you can.
Really helpful- clarifies some of the issues involved for me. We saw some of these dynamics played out publicly at a BLM protest and counter protest in our area.
Dear John, Thanks for your helpful blog and insights wrought from the experience of day to day living in a multi-ethnic community.
You say "Yet English (or British) nationalism ought to be celebrated, both as a bond that unites people and a focus for identifiable virtues. For many immigrants the rule of law, the opportunity for advancement, the freedom from oppressive authority are all benefits to value; benefits that overall outweigh experiences of racism or the occasional failure of institutions."
Herein lies the challenge. English identity that equates to a white ethnicity excludes those who do not display the appropriate heritage and is used as a tool for those with racist agendas. Here Englishness becomes an exclusive club of the ethnically privileged, marking out those who identify as white being different and superior over other ethnicities. How then do we consider those who are not white but third or fourth generation English born black with no other single ethnicity than to say black. Are they not also English?
I'm not questioning the integrity of your blog, but offering from my own reflection and experience. Colin, Birmingham
Dear Colin
Thanks for your comments. I think we should contest those who say that English identity equates to white identity. It doesn't. People can and do have an English identity who are not white; it is not an exclusive club. Nor does it demand people renounce other identities - a dual cultural identity is a source of enrichment, albeit possibly of tension at times. In an Add-on in a previous blog I mentioned the late Rabbi Jonathan Sachs who confidently lived out both Jewish and English identities.
So I strongly believe that third or fourth generation black people can be both black and English.
Believing that God has created us also gives us confidence to value and explore our identities. How does this fit with your experience?
Warmest regards
John
Thanks John for this... very informative and thought [rovoking stuff. It pretty much aligns with my own views on these issues.... Just a couple of things to add about how the actual dynamics vary according to local context... The superdiversity of inner London, which I don't think means that everyone living there is an "anywhere" person, is so different from the situation in the North of England... But even there every town is different, maybe every neighbourhood.. Did you see the review of a recent book I did? https://williamtemplefoundation.org.uk/blog-review-race-space-multiculturalism/ I don't think celebrating English identiy in Blackpool (96% white British and one of the most deprived towns in England) is the same as doing it in Burnley or Blackburn where there are two largely segregated communities poor white English and poor Asian Heritage . And then Preston where I live is more multi-cultural... Majority white British, but large communities of Gujeratis, Pakistanis, Sikhs, Polish, Romanian, Carribean, and all the diversity of overseas students at the local university. And even within the one city there are different ethnic dynamics.. Where we live the "urban village" is diverse but a little above the deprivation level, and because of a single local school and long term community work most people get along OK.. and there are good relationships and real friendships between folk at the mosque, the church and the two Hindu Temples. Over the other side of town where we worship and are involved in community work things are more of a struggle and more raw... with some tensions from time to time..
The other point is the link between "Christian" and English identity (being CofE and all that).. which contrasts with the racist othering of Muslims... Of course there are real differences of belief and religious practice.. but it does tend to get so confused with ethnicity and racism.. We need to keep working away at this issue in the church.. but over 40 years we don't seem to have come very far.
I'm loving your blogs, keep it up please. Are there ways it can get out to a wider audience.. For example do you know the evangelical facebook group EDGE?
Shalom.. Greg
Dear Greg
Thanks for your comments. It is really great to hear from you. You have moved (physically) away from West Ham. No problem - you are now much nearer Anfield.
I particularly appreciate your points, and your review.
* My experience is entirely London-centric, as with quite a few other commentators. I think smaller towns - especially if just one major industry predominated and if only one or two broad ethnic groups likewise - probably differs from big city super-diversity. I would like to get more of a handle on how different.
* Specific context is very important - as you say quite adjacent localities can be very different.
* The term multiculturalism muddles. As i hear it, it can either mean different communities living quite separate or parallel lives; or people retaining significant elements of their cultures but occupying the same spaces (localities, jobs, social amenities, churches etc) as people of other cultures. I favour the second, lament the first. But very often it is not clear what people mean.
I do want the blog to reach a wider audience and keep wanting to get various media to mention it. I am technologically very unsavvy so don't use Facebook, or have contact with EDGE. But please commend it as widely as you can.
Warmest regards
John
Thanks John,, If it's ok I'll do my best to pronote the blog through my favcebook networks